So first off, I'm not sold on Psalm 83 being a prophecy, but I remain open minded about it. I actually think a better fit might include the same nations but as a grouping with Iran, Damascus and starting with terrorism. I think Bills other book on the destruction of the area of Iran that was ancient Elam fits the profile of what we might be seeing start to take shape much better. Bill has mentioned that these might dovetail.
So his idea is that the inner ring which include Syria, Lebanon, Gaza I think, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are all modern day successors to the nations mentioned in Psalm 83, and they are conspicuous by their absence from Ezek 38-39. Great point and Bill uses it to explain the state of Israel in peaceful oblivion to the threat of the Northern Coalition (Bill calls them the outer ring of enemies) poised to invade in Ezek 38. Most scholars feel that Russia, Turkey, Iran as well as Ethiopia/Sudan and Libya/North Africa are the main players but there is also the mention of "and many peoples with thee" that critics of Psalm 83 say could include the inner ring.
This is one of the things that makes it impossible to have this current war in Israel be Psalm 83 because Jordan and Egypt have been acting as friends of Israel, Jordan going to the effort of shooting down some of the missiles from Iran, as did Saudi Arabia.
Something happens to make Israel oblivious to that invasion of Ezek 38. Is it Ps 83 or is it as Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum says (
@Tall Timbers has a thread up that quotes Dr F on that topic exactly) that Israel is dwelling without due care and attention having come back from some war?
I look at these scriptures to provide a possible solution or an enhanced view of the Psalm 83 war if it is a prophecy. It certainly dovetails. We could leave Psalm 83 out of it altogether with these next 3 passages and still have a good explanation of why Ezek 38 has Israel in such a complacent state, not worried about invasion. Because if they do defeat the inner ring especially Syria/Damascus that could be the trigger for Ezek 38.
Isaiah 17- we all know it, its the destruction of Damascus. I don't think we are here by then or by Ezek 38 because of the way God's attention has turned to Israel as His focus.
Ezekiel 32 but only from v 17-32 because there is a time division starting at v 17. The prophet deals with Egypt in 1-16 but then is given a separate prophecy starting from v 17. That includes: Egypt, Assyria, ELAM!!!! aka Iran but the south western shores and up into modern Iraq. Meshek and Tubal are there, they are in modern Turkey. The "Princes of the North" are there (a bit fuzzy on who they are) and finally the Sidonians, who are part of modern day Lebanon.
Jeremiah 49 but not the inclusion of v28-33 with Kedar and Hazor, that was fulfilled in the past with Babylon. That includes Ammon (northern Jordan) Edom (southern Jordan) Damascus and ELAM again. The Elam and Damascus elements seem to fit with Ezek 32:24-25 and Isaiah 17.
Isaiah and Jeremiah above both include Damascus
Jeremiah and Ezekiel include Elam
Ezekiel includes Assyria (think modern day Syria, which includes Damascus), it covers Elam (modern day south west Iran and up into Iraq) so I think of it as my key to the puzzle.
If you draw 3 circles that intersect, they include bits of the whole puzzle. Each one has 2 out of the 3 essential elements.
Starting here:
Ezekiel 32: 17-32. Egypt is the reluctant player here. All these nations are tied together by terrorism but Egypt is mentioned 3 times across the whole prophecy, beginning middle and end. So Egypt plays an important role in some way. Terrorism is the other common theme. I'll bold areas to pay close attention to.
Ezek 32: 17-32
17 It came to pass also in the twelfth year, on the fifteenth
day of the month,
that the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
18 “Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt,
And cast them down to the depths of the earth,
Her and the daughters of the famous nations,
With those who go down to the Pit:
19 ‘Whom do you surpass in beauty?
Go down, be placed with the uncircumcised.’
20 “
They shall fall in the midst of those slain by the sword;
She is delivered to the sword,
Drawing her and all her multitudes.
21 The strong among the mighty
Shall speak to him out of the midst of hell
With those who help him:
‘They have gone down,
They lie with the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.’
22 “
Assyria is there, and all her company,
With their graves all around her,
All of them slain, fallen by the sword.
23 Her graves are set in the recesses of the Pit,
And her company is all around her grave,
All of them slain, fallen by the sword,
Who caused terror in the land of the living.
24
“There is Elam and all her multitude,
All around her grave,
All of them slain, fallen by the sword,
Who have gone down uncircumcised to the lower parts of the earth,
Who caused their terror in the land of the living;
Now
they bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit.
25 They have set her bed in the midst of the slain,
With all her multitude,
With her graves all around it,
All of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword;
Though their terror was caused
In the land of the living,
Yet they bear their shame
With those who go down to the Pit;
It was put in the midst of the slain.
26 “
There are Meshech and Tubal and all their multitudes,
With all their graves around it,
All of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword,
Though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
27 They do not lie with the mighty
Who are fallen of the uncircumcised,
Who have gone down to hell with their weapons of war;
They have laid their swords under their heads,
But their iniquities will be on their bones,
Because of the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
28 Yes, you shall be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised,
And lie with
those slain by the sword.
29 “
There is Edom,
Her kings and all her princes,
Who
despite their might
Are laid beside those slain by the sword;
They shall lie with the uncircumcised,
And with those who go down to the Pit.
30
There are the princes of the north,
All of them,
and all the Sidonians,
Who have gone down with the slain
In shame at the terror which they caused by their might;
They lie uncircumcised with
those slain by the sword,
And bear their shame with those who go down to the Pit.
31 “Pharaoh will see them
And be comforted over all his multitude,
Pharaoh and all his army,
Slain by the sword,”
Says the Lord God.
32
“For I have caused My terror in the land of the living;
And he shall be placed in the midst of the uncircumcised
With
those slain by the sword,
Pharaoh and all his multitude,”
Says the Lord God.
My thoughts:
Notice the refrain of slain by the sword/fallen by the sword. Egypt is somehow comforted that though she lies dead, she has company. That implies that she didn't directly cause this act of war that has them all slain. Egypt has done wrong, and she's being punished but there are other nations here.
Notice the refrain of terror caused by their might, in the land of the living (Assyria-Syria/Iraq, Elam-SW Iran, Meschech & Tubal- Turkey, Princes of the North, Sidonians -Lebanon) But not Jordan or Egypt.
Notice who isn't part of the conflict but seemingly killed because of it (Egypt, Edom-ie Southern Jordan and Meschek and Tubal -ie Turkey)
V18 the "daughters" (descendants?) of the famous nations (probably these nations mentioned here) which would explain why Jordan and Egypt seem drawn into a conflict they didn't want. Right now they are somewhat friendly to Israel.
V20 Egypt falls but she isn't weilding the sword. She falls as a result of the sword being "delivered TO the sword". But v 32 explains that GOD has caused the ultimate terror and placed Egypt in the grave.
V 23 Assyria which is modern day Syria and parts of Iraq is called out for causing terror in the land of the living.
v 24 and 25 we come to the HEART OF THE MATTER. Elam. South Western Iran. Not only does she fall by the sword, but she bears SHAME for it, and it's repeated TWICE. This is very significant. I think that might imply that Elam is at the heart of the problem.
V 26&28 we see modern day Turkey in Meschech and Tubal. Now this one gets mentioned TWICE for causing terror in the land of the living, but no shame attached. Something ODD here. Turkey doesn't go down with the mighty, but instead seems to have been caught off guard, sleeping with their weapons under them. In contrast with the mighty who go down with their weapons in hand. Then this bit explains why they were caught up in this "But their iniquities will be on their bones, Because of the terror of the mighty in the land of the living." Guilty as charged of terrorism. I have thoughts about what happens to Turkey when Damascus blows. She's possibly caught unaware, and downwind of the fallout whatever that might be.
V 29 Edom is southern Jordan and she doesn't seem to be a combatant, but caught in the crossfire, much like Egypt.
V 30 puts Sidon (south central Lebanon on the coast) and the "Princes of the North" together. They are in shame, because of their terrorism which they directly caused because of their might. Leaving the Princes of the North, focus on Lebanon here, because this current conflict, the Israelis mention that Hezbollah out of Lebanon is a far bigger, better armed threat than Gaza has been with Hamas. Might. They have it. Iran gave it to them. Princes of the North I think might be the Russians in Syria for reasons I'll explain later.
V 31&32 is God speaking, and He is the one causing HIS Terror here - in the land of the living. He places Pharoah in the grave. But Pharoah ruler of Egypt is comforted because of all the others going down in death with him.
I'll unpack the other passages next.