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Have You Ever Heard Of This?

Umbrella Girl

Well-known
The other day, I got into a conversation about end times and the rapture with a delivery person. One thing led to another, and that’s how the conversation got started, because I’m always looking for an “in” when it comes to this topic, and I found one.

This individual was already well aware of end time matters including the rapture. But unfortunately, he started telling me that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. And that we must have the “Seal of God” in order to be raptured.

I responded that a person is sealed by God upon the moment of salvation - and there is nothing more that needs to be done about it.

But this individual insisted that belief in Christ is not enough to be raptured, and that without the Seal of God, you are left behind - even if you are a believer. That there is still something more that we must do.

We reached an impasse, and the conversation went no further.

Just wondering if anyone else is familiar with this doctrine. I’ve never heard of it, but as soon as I did, it sounded profoundly wrong…
 
I had a great discussion one night about the return of the Lord at work with the cleaner, a conversation he started out of the blue. It turned out that his late mother had been a Jehovah's Witness and he had been thinking about something she had said years before. Maybe the delivery guy is something of this nature. It can still be a good conversation- interested but not yet saved.

Maybe if he delivers again you can have another good conversation, begin to sow seeds. Maybe someone the Lord has brought across your path to witness to.

God Bless You :)
 
The other day, I got into a conversation about end times and the rapture with a delivery person. One thing led to another, and that’s how the conversation got started, because I’m always looking for an “in” when it comes to this topic, and I found one.

This individual was already well aware of end time matters including the rapture. But unfortunately, he started telling me that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. And that we must have the “Seal of God” in order to be raptured.

I responded that a person is sealed by God upon the moment of salvation - and there is nothing more that needs to be done about it.

But this individual insisted that belief in Christ is not enough to be raptured, and that without the Seal of God, you are left behind - even if you are a believer. That there is still something more that we must do.

We reached an impasse, and the conversation went no further.

Just wondering if anyone else is familiar with this doctrine. I’ve never heard of it, but as soon as I did, it sounded profoundly wrong…
It sounds like this person thinks you have to earn your salvation, but we know this isn't true. None of us can be good enough to earn it. We believe Jesus died was buried and rose again the 3rd day. You are correct when we are saved we are sealed until the day of redemption.
 
Salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ as Lord (God) and Savior alone, in accordance with Scripture (the Bible) alone, by the grace of God alone, to God be all the glory. We cannot do anything to "help" "earn" Salvation and eternal life, and to say we can steals glory from Jesus, who did it all for us. Stealing glory from Jesus is a sin of vanity and denies the sufficiency of Jesus' work on the cross to pay for everyone's sins that have been committed or ever will be committed.

The only good works that count for anything are those done AFTER Salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, and they only count for rewards in Heaven, NOT toward Salvation. The only works that count toward the rewards in Heaven are those that aren't burned up when we arrive at the Bema seat of Christ. The good works referred to in Ephesians 2 are the good works God has prepared and equipped us to do for Him in His service AFTER we are saved, and our Salvation is NOT conditional upon them.

Catholics and Orthodox believe in works being necessary for Salvation, not just for rewards in Heaven. Some legalistic Protestants, while denying works-based Salvation, say people have to do good works as "evidence" of being saved or to "maintain" Salvation, but this is not true, as it is another form of works-based Salvation.

I heard part of a TV evangelist's message yesterday that was spot-on on this topic. Essentially, once we are saved, even when (not if) we sin or when (not if) we don't live up to what we're supposed to do, we won't lose our Salvation because that would be a works-based Salvation. God created us with free will and we don't lose free will when we're saved by faith in Jesus Christ, so even after we're saved, we still sin. However, since Jesus died for all of our sins that we ever committed or will ever commit, God now sees Jesus' righteousness, which is imputed to us at the moment of Salvation, instead of our sins and unworthiness (whew!)


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10, KJV

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-18, KJV

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Romans 4:3-8, 20-25, KJV

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Psalm 32:1-2, 5, KJV
 
The concept of a "seal of God" can be found in the writings of Ellen G White. Therefore I am suspecting your delivery person is possibly a Seventh Day Adventist. They believe that during the Great Tribulation, prior to Christ's return for the righteous believers, only 144,000 will receive the seal of God which is carried by the angel of Revelation 7:2. To receive this seal requires a life of total commitment and holiness above the average person. Hence it is yet again a perversion of the gospel of grace.
 
False teachers = wolves wearing sheep's clothing among the flock :mad:
They do immeasurable damage and lead many astray :mad:

No wonder Pastors and Teachers will be judged more harshly.
False teachers are just one of many ways that satan attacks, deceives, and destroys.

1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
James 3:1, KJV

1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.
James 3:1, ESV

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1 Peter 5:8, KJV
 
The concept of a "seal of God" can be found in the writings of Ellen G White. Therefore I am suspecting your delivery person is possibly a Seventh Day Adventist. They believe that during the Great Tribulation, prior to Christ's return for the righteous believers, only 144,000 will receive the seal of God which is carried by the angel of Revelation 7:2. To receive this seal requires a life of total commitment and holiness above the average person. Hence it is yet again a perversion of the gospel of grace.
Matt, thanks for that explanation.
 
I think the JW also use the number of 144000 as the total of souls that will gain entry to heaven :( There is so much bad info/teaching/deception in the world and without the Holy Spirit people make bad choices. 1Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
We must continue be like the Bereans studying the scriptures.
 
The other day, I got into a conversation about end times and the rapture with a delivery person. One thing led to another, and that’s how the conversation got started, because I’m always looking for an “in” when it comes to this topic, and I found one.

This individual was already well aware of end time matters including the rapture. But unfortunately, he started telling me that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. And that we must have the “Seal of God” in order to be raptured.

I responded that a person is sealed by God upon the moment of salvation - and there is nothing more that needs to be done about it.

But this individual insisted that belief in Christ is not enough to be raptured, and that without the Seal of God, you are left behind - even if you are a believer. That there is still something more that we must do.

We reached an impasse, and the conversation went no further.

Just wondering if anyone else is familiar with this doctrine. I’ve never heard of it, but as soon as I did, it sounded profoundly wrong…
Did he believe in the pre trib rapture, or post trib rapture?
 
I responded that a person is sealed by God upon the moment of salvation - and there is nothing more that needs to be done about it.

But this individual insisted that belief in Christ is not enough to be raptured, and that without the Seal of God, you are left behind - even if you are a believer. That there is still something more that we must do.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
.
 
In my experience of members of cult groups they all struggle with the Gospel of Grace, Eternal Security, God's faithfulness to Israel and the Rapture. Bringing up these topics to them can really make them think. God Bless :)

Think about it... 🤔

Going to Church and tithing can be considered works, so it is much easier for cults and some churches to keep their congregations and getting money by preaching that works are required to get to Heaven. My sister and her family are JW's and they have to make sure they get their work in!
 
I've heard this quoted -- and most likely taken out of context--

In James 2:26 we read, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” The context of this verse is found in James 2:14-26. In these verses, James is rebuking those who claim to have faith in Christ but don't show it by their good works.
 
I knew a Catholic woman that HAD to get her tithe into the priest IN PERSON every month in order to keep her kid in the Catholic school there 😥

If we needed to do works to be saved why does God say in Isaiah that our works are like filthy rags? Also why did Jesus say it is finished on the cross?

[Isa 64:6 NKJV]
6 But we are all like an unclean [thing], And all our righteousnesses [are] like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

[Jhn 19:30 NKJV]
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
 
I knew a Catholic woman that HAD to get her tithe into the priest IN PERSON every month in order to keep her kid in the Catholic school there 😥

If we needed to do works to be saved why does God say in Isaiah that our works are like filthy rags? Also why did Jesus say it is finished on the cross?

[Isa 64:6 NKJV]
6 But we are all like an unclean [thing], And all our righteousnesses [are] like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

[Jhn 19:30 NKJV]
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
It may be that by tithing, the kid qualified for free tuition. Different churches do various things to help parents pay for private Catholic, Lutheran, Christian, Hebrew, etc. school. If an individual is habitually late, short, checks/cc dishonored, etc., sometimes he or she has to bring it in person. Ditto, if the child is a chronic/habitual troublemaker, or has some sort of problem(s)/challenge(s). Basing free tuition on a tithe automatically makes it sliding scale and theoretically doesn't create a hardship, especially if all of the kids in the family are included.

Some Lutheran churches pay full tuition for every member's kid(s) at Lutheran private schools. Some, it's only half tuition. Some do it sliding scale. Some Lutheran schools are attached to or affiliated with a specific congregation, and parents in that congregation get free or greatly reduced tuition for their kids in exchange for volunteering at the school. When Minneapolis was starting to bus kids to desegregate, the Catholic guy across the street offered to give us a good reference so my siblings could go to Catholic school instead of a crummy school (I was too old to be affected). This was a big deal back then because a lot of Catholic schools only allowed kids from good Catholic families in (including the one the neighbor could help with). My siblings didn't go to Catholic school, and the year they had to get bused for 9th Grade (only), the school they ended up at was better than the one they would have been in :lol:
 
the Catholic guy across the street offered to give us a good reference so my siblings could go to Catholic school instead of a crummy school (I was too old to be affected). This was a big deal back then because a lot of Catholic schools only allowed kids from good Catholic families in (including the one the neighbor could help with). My siblings didn't go to Catholic school, and the year they had to get bused for 9th Grade (only), the school they ended up at was better than the one they would have been in :lol:
Interesting but aren't Lutherans and Catholics great enemies of old? :lol:
 
If people would just stop for a moment and realize what they are saying when they say works are required for salvation. That Jesus wasn't enough; that you have to drag your sorry walking corpse through Heaven's gate and present yourself as co-savior next to Christ, and the hideous amount of pride and blasphemy that this concept entails. Nothing gets under my skin quicker. No atheist, polytheist, politician (and that's saying something) or anything else. Nothing gets under my skin more than people that blaspheme Christ while breaking bread with the Church. These people are killers, true killers. The kill you and you never come back kind. The worst of the worst and that saliva-stained ravenous smile and wolf stench that they have... I grew up with them and can smell them ten miles down the road. 🤮🤮🤮
 
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