A Gap between the Rapture and the Trib?

[Goodboy]

Who told me it usually means to create a strong covenant?

Daniel 9:27 - Bible Gateway Lets start here with the full Bible Gateway list of the English versions of the Bible on Dan 9:27

ASV And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week:
AMP And he will enter into a binding and irrevocable covenant with the many
AMPC And he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many
NASB 1995 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week,
RSV And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week;

You can look the list up at the link I gave.

This is the translation of the word Gabar from Strong's:
a primitive root; to be strong; by implication to prevail, act insolently: exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.


I had some free time and decided to look up Daniel 9:27 in the different Bible versions you listed and sure enough they do say "to create a strong covenant" in those versions. I wonder why they translate Gabar that way, when Gabar does not even have the word create in it's definition anywhere?

In any case, I am happy that I did as you suggested and looked it up in the other Bible translations. Now I can see why you stated what you did about how the word is usually translated. To be honest, I thought that someone had just told you that's what it means like some Pastor or someone. Having five Bible versions that say that, I would have come to the same conclusion as you. Sadly, there are so many people now days that just want to argue and win however they can. I guess not knowing you, I thought that might have been what you were doing which is unfair.

So I apologize if I was a little aggressive responding to you and pray you will forgive me.

God Bless!

 

[Margery]

This is the translation of the word Gabar from Strong's:
a primitive root; to be strong; by implication to prevail, act insolently: exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more strength, strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.


I had some free time and decided to look up Daniel 9:27 in the different Bible versions you listed and sure enough they do say "to create a strong covenant" in those versions. I wonder why they translate Gabar that way, when Gabar does not even have the word create in it's definition anywhere?

In any case, I am happy that I did as you suggested and looked it up in the other Bible translations. Now I can see why you stated what you did about how the word is usually translated. To be honest, I thought that someone had just told you that's what it means like some Pastor or someone. Having five Bible versions that say that, I would have come to the same conclusion as you. Sadly, there are so many people now days that just want to argue and win however they can. I guess not knowing you, I thought that might have been what you were doing which is unfair.

So I apologize if I was a little aggressive responding to you and pray you will forgive me.

God Bless!

You are my beloved brother in Christ, and I do. Forgive me for jumping to the concern that you might have become a KJV only enthusiast, in the time we were all apart. I knew you as very solid back in the RF days, and now here too so I shouldn't have been alarmed by that. I used to be Athenasius back on RF so you might recollect previous conversations and prayers from back then.

Just a quick question- I always use a large font for Brother Billy as his eyesight is bad, and I notice you use a large font too. Is it better if I reply in a similar large font?

I know it helps Brother Billy (sure do miss him and hope he starts chatting in here soon- he was very ill about the time he became a member here).

 

[Goodboy]

You are my beloved brother in Christ, and I do. Forgive me for jumping to the concern that you might have become a KJV only enthusiast, in the time we were all apart.

You are my beloved sister in Christ.

Of course I forgive you and I can see how you thought that I may have been a King James only Bible Christian. If the roles were reversed and I saw five Bible versions saying one thing and you saying that the KJV says something different, I might have come to the same conclusion about you.

I have become a little more cynical in the last five years, as so many people have become full blown Narcissist or Covert Narcissist. My X-Wife of 36 years either always was or became a Covert Narcissist. Even those who are not Narcissist are far more selfish than I am use to.

I am glad that you told me you were Athenasius back on the RF forum. Unfortunately, I don't have the best memory of those days as I was not at all happy when they banned me for telling the truth. For many people the truth really hurts! So while I kind of remember the name of Athenasius, sadly I don't really remember our conversations.

While I don't see as well these days, I don't require the large font. I use it just because it looks better to me. Do you think I make it too large?

Here is a scripture that I know you are aware of below.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I believe Satan wanted us to be at odds, but God used it for us the become closer!!! Isn't that great!
What a mighty God we serve.

 

[Margery]

I believe Satan wanted us to be at odds, but God used it for us the become closer!!! Isn't that great!
What a mighty God we serve.

AMEN!

 

[Growing in Grace]

I use it just because it looks better to me.

Font size 12-point is good. Anything larger is not effective for ease of reading for most people.

 

[Goodboy]

Font size 12-point is good. Anything larger is not effective for ease of reading for most people.

I was using font size 22-point before. I think that font size 12-point is too small. I think I will go with font size 15-point which seems to be the default.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

interestin yarn about the formation of OWG, you'll like this one TT

Restless Nations Jostling to Usher in the 10 Kings :: By Wilfred Hahn​

Published on: January 23, 2024 by RR10 Category:General Articles, Wilfred Hahn
Given the state of geopolitical affairs today, it is key to see that groups of countries must come together to assemble sufficient common-minded heft to affect their agendas. Why? Because there is no longer a common global consensus, as we will show. Power is being spread more widely.
Globalism is on the ropes. Critically, this long-running trend is beginning to break up in our time. This is a fascinating and momentous development for many reasons. However, this writer believes the most notable one is that it reveals the birth pangs of minilateralism. What is this? It is the geopolitical fragmentation of national relationships that (we believe) will eventually set up the emergence of the 10 Kings.
This group of kings is mentioned or pictured in the Bible a total of 10 times. They must, therefore, be an important end-time actor. And indeed, this is the case.

Restless Nations Jostling to Usher in the 10 Kings :: By Wilfred Hahn

Given the state of geopolitical affairs today, it is key to see that groups of countries must come together to assemble sufficient common-minded heft to

www.raptureready.com

 

[Kaatje]

Restless Nations Jostling to Usher in the 10 Kings :: By Wilfred Hahn​

Wow, thank you for posting this.
Very interesting indeed.
Gonna watch this to see how it pans out.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Restless Nations Jostling to Usher in the 10 Kings :: By Wilfred Hahn

Interesting article. A global govmint in some form should precede the 10 Kings. When I see how much power globalists seem to wield today I have to wonder if maybe that pre-requisite in prophecy is already fulfilled, and we just don't fully see it yet.

 

[Goodboy]

And maybe those 7 days Noah was in the Ark with the door closed before the rain began-- just maybe it hints at God allowing time in between events. I dont know and am just pondering all the possibilities!

Not trying to keep the discussion regarding "The Gap" going, but for accuracy sake.

Noah was not in the Ark for 7 days before the rain began. I think you are referring to Genesis 7:4 below, but that was just God telling Noah how soon the flood would start so he would start getting the animals in.
Genesis 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

The verses below state when the flood started (Genesis 7:11) and when Noah entered the Ark (Genesis 7:13).
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

God Bless!

 

[Kaatje]

Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

Goodboy, your explanation intrigued me. It sounds compelling , but I always thought there were 7 days between entering the ark and the rains starting to fall. So I went searching to find an answer to this conondrum.

This is what I found:

Did Noah enter the ark one week prior to the flood?​

It's important to note that Genesis 7 is not written in a purely chronological fashion. Moses doubles back in a circular manner typical of an Eastern, Hebraic style of writing as he tells the story of the flood. If we reorder the text of Genesis 7 slightly, we can create a chronological progression in the narrative, which allows us to understand the narrative more clearly:

Gen. 7:6 Now Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth.
Gen. 7:7 Then Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him entered the ark because of the water of the flood.
Gen. 7:8 Of clean animals and animals that are not clean and birds and everything that creeps on the ground,
Gen. 7:9 there went into the ark to Noah by twos, male and female, as God had commanded Noah.​

Gen. 7:13 On the very same day Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark,
Gen. 7:14 they and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, all sorts of birds.
Gen. 7:15 So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life.
Gen. 7:16 Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the LORD closed it behind him.
Gen. 7:17 Then the flood came upon the earth for forty days, and the water increased and lifted up the ark, so that it rose above the earth.​

Gen. 7:10 It came about after the seven days, that the water of the flood came upon the earth.
Gen. 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.
Gen. 7:12 The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.​

Reordering the text in this way produces a chronological sequence, and in that sequence, we can clearly see that the phrase "on the very same day" in v.13 is speaking about the day Noah and the animals entered the ark, not the day the flood came. The family entered on one day and then seven days later the flood came.

 

[Goodboy]

Goodboy, your explanation intrigued me. It sounds compelling , but I always thought there were 7 days between entering the ark and the rains starting to fall. So I went searching to find an answer to this conondrum.

This is what I found:

Did Noah enter the ark one week prior to the flood?​

It's important to note that Genesis 7 is not written in a purely chronological fashion. Moses doubles back in a circular manner typical of an Eastern, Hebraic style of writing as he tells the story of the flood. If we reorder the text of Genesis 7 slightly, we can create a chronological progression in the narrative, which allows us to understand the narrative more clearly:

Gen. 7:6 Now Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth.​

Gen. 7:7 Then Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him entered the ark because of the water of the flood.​

Gen. 7:8 Of clean animals and animals that are not clean and birds and everything that creeps on the ground,​

Gen. 7:9 there went into the ark to Noah by twos, male and female, as God had commanded Noah.​

Gen. 7:13 On the very same day Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark,​

Gen. 7:14 they and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, all sorts of birds.​

Gen. 7:15 So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life.​

Gen. 7:16 Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the LORD closed it behind him.​

Gen. 7:17 Then the flood came upon the earth for forty days, and the water increased and lifted up the ark, so that it rose above the earth.​

Gen. 7:10 It came about after the seven days, that the water of the flood came upon the earth.​

Gen. 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.​

Gen. 7:12 The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.​

Reordering the text in this way produces a chronological sequence, and in that sequence, we can clearly see that the phrase "on the very same day" in v.13 is speaking about the day Noah and the animals entered the ark, not the day the flood came. The family entered on one day and then seven days later the flood came.

Not willing to debate as it is not that important, but proof by reordering scripture does not work for me. So we will just have to agree to disagree. I will leave it at that.

 

[Work4Peanuts]

I actually think that the example of the rapture of the church found in the Old Testament is found with Enoch, who walked with God and then was not, which happened quite a bit before the flood.

Who knows? I've always personally felt that God would remove Christians at the very last minute, simply because He is a merciful God, unwilling that any should perish. But He also knows the end from the beginning, knowing exactly who and how many people will be saved before His wrath will come upon the world- and the fulness of gentiles could happen quite a bit before the tribulation. He's God, and whatever He has determined will come to pass no matter what people plan. So we might see all of the set up beforehand and then whoosh! right as soon as the a/C signs the covenant, or we could go way before anything sets up.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

I actually think that the example of the rapture of the church found in the Old Testament is found with Enoch, who walked with God and then was not, which happened quite a bit before the flood.

Who knows? I've always personally felt that God would remove Christians at the very last minute, simply because He is a merciful God, unwilling that any should perish. But He also knows the end from the beginning, knowing exactly who and how many people will be saved before His wrath will come upon the world- and the fulness of gentiles could happen quite a bit before the tribulation. He's God, and whatever He has determined will come to pass no matter what people plan. So we might see all of the set up beforehand and then whoosh! right as soon as the a/C signs the covenant, or we could go way before anything sets up.

Hoping that it's the 1st one but i got the feeling it's most likely we are snatched right at the very last moment before it all kicks off.

 

[Andy C]

Its always a comforting thought knowing the rapture could happen any day. No prophecy needs to be fulfilled first, simply here one second, gone the next.

How many Christians truly believe we are in the final “season”? More likely the beliefs are that the rapture may happen soon, but probably not in their lifetime.

 

[Tall Timbers]

How many Christians truly believe we are in the final “season”? More likely the beliefs are that the rapture may happen soon, but probably not in their lifetime.

I'm thinking it'll happen in my lifetime, if I live long enough. I don't think it's far off.

 

[Andy C]

For those left behind, what would be going through their minds right after the rapture, and there are no signs the tribulation is imminent.
Chances are their Christian family members or friends had given them a rapture brief, and what to expect. When there is nothing happening immediately after the rapture, and some length of gap is happening, could this then cause them to believe it was something else, and not the rapture?

The majority of Christians I have known no very little of end times. They also tend to believe the rapture triggers the tribulation.

 

[mattfivefour]

Not willing to debate as it is not that important, but proof by reordering scripture does not work for me. So we will just have to agree to disagree. I will leave it at that.

I believe the timing (7 days or the same day) is a topic of valid debate. I agree with @Goodboy...first, that the topic is not worth arguing about; and second, that reordering verses is not a good general way to exegete Scripture.

 

[Growing in Grace]

When there is nothing happening immediately after the rapture, and some length of gap is happening, could this then cause them to believe it was something else, and not the rapture?

Good point. My guess is that God will use our departure as another wake-up call for those left behind. We know that the Holy Spirit in us restrains evil, so a huge vacuum will happen -- and get filled with what??

 

[Andy C]

Good point. My guess is that God will use our departure as another wake-up call for those left behind. We know that the Holy Spirit in us restrains evil, so a huge vacuum will happen -- and get filled with what??

Violence and evil will take over one second after the rapture.