A Gap between the Rapture and the Trib?

[Kaatje]

Kaatje,
You are wise beyond your years!
So great to see that you are one of the moderators!!!

Love you too, brother!

 

[Work4Peanuts]

@Goodboy, @Margery

Don't want to come between the two of you sparring, but still.

I always learned that translating is loosing.
No matter which translation in what language, you will always loose something of the original text.
I will admit, the KJV is a good one (not perfect), but one that is origin-based.
Origin based means that the translator tried to stay as close to the originals as they could.
The downside is, that it is often less easy readable.
An other form of translating is audience-based.
Here the translators try to come as close to the language the reader knows.
This of course makes the translation a bit less close to the orignal scripture.
Anyhow, all that to say NO translation is perfect.

In my (Dutch) translation (HSV) it say: "Hij zal het verbond met velen versterken".
If I translate that literally is reads: "He shall the covenant with many make-stronger."
You see how difficult translating is?
A good translation would be: He shall make the covenant with many stronger.
And this is just an example of two close related languages.

Back to Gabar. Strong says it's
01396. ‭רבג‭ gabar ‭gaw-bar’‭; a primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently: — exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.‭
‭
In Arabic the word is Agbar.
As in Allah Agbar, meaning Allah is the greater (or the greatest).
So I agree with Goodboy that the best explanation is that the AC will take an existing covenant and confirm it with many.
Now whether the covenant already exists in our day, or not, that remains to be seen.
It could also be that the AC makes a new one, first corfirms it with some, and than with many.
I don't know.

Stepping out of the crossfire, but hope to have been of little help.
Blessings to you both.

Regarding translation: the biggest problem, when a word has multiple translations into another language, is that in the original language it might mean one, the other, or all of the above. The language of the translation might not even have the original essence of the word in the language. If one is not highly fluent in both languages, the meaning just might not come across at all.

 

[Kaatje]

I agree @Work4Peanuts

Plus that language is a fluent thing.

Take for instance the word "gay". Originally it meant cheerful, sunny disposition, etc.
Nowadays you can't use it anymore in normal conversation. Gay has become "homosexual and proud about it.

And don't get me started on the word "ass".
Just see my disclaimer in the thread about the ass that had to be redeemed by a lamb.

 

[Andy C]

I would say that anything and everything that can and will happen in the prophetic timeline up to and just before the beginning of Tribulation is relevant to the Church since we may be here up until that time... until we're called up, of course.

A year ot two ago, I thought you might be over the top on thinking the Ten Kingdoms/OWG would form while the church was still here. A few months ago, I thought not so crazy after all. The alignment still has a lot of work to do to get all countries on board, so the longer we are here, waiting to go home, evil is working overtime. Im still confident the Holy Spirit and the formation of the OWG cant be here at the same time, but Im not as confident as before.

It may become a very bumpy road before going Home, but we all have His strength, and our faith in Him, to know whatever suffering we may endure, its only temporary.

 

[Andy C]

Interesting overall thread with more twists than Chubby Checkers doing the twist.

 

[Tall Timbers]

A year ot two ago, I thought you might be over the top on thinking the Ten Kingdoms/OWG would form while the church was still here.

I've only been sharing what we might see based on what Daniel tells us about the things that will happen before the start of Tribulation. What I think is I have no idea how much of the development of the OWG we'll be here for. It's not my position that we'll see the OWG and it's division into 10 kingdoms, but Biblically speaking, we may well see those things. I think it is worthwhile understanding what we might be here for prior to the Rapture. I've only been sharing what's possible based on the Bible, mostly, but not always leaving my own personal thoughts out of it.

The things that are going to happen after the Rapture aren't nearly as important to the Church as knowing what MAY happen before we are taken up, but all of it is worth considering, since it's in the Word.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Regarding translation: the biggest problem, when a word has multiple translations into another language, is that in the original language it might mean one, the other, or all of the above. The language of the translation might not even have the original essence of the word in the language. If one is not highly fluent in both languages, the meaning just might not come across at all.

Every village might have it's own dialect which changes over time. I figure it is close to impossible for translators to get it right. I was amazed how much the dialect differed in Colombia from one jungle community to another. Because the villages were fairly isolated they developed uniquely. I suspect it was similar back in the days of Jesus and during the times of the prophets, judges, and kings of Israel.

 

[1LoverofGod]

I don't think I am going to be thinking about a gap once we are outta here.
In that twinkling of an eye it just won't matter to me.
I often wonder how much effort must be put into trying to calculate an event that isn't in Scripture. It must be stressful putting in so much time and effort to come up with a theory.
But then, nobody asked my opinion

 

[Anastacia]

I don't think I am going to be thinking about a gap once we are outta here.
In that twinkling of an eye it just won't matter to me.
I often wonder how much effort must be put into trying to calculate an event that isn't in Scripture. It must be stressful putting in so much time and effort to come up with a theory.
But then, nobody asked my opinion

Ive been excitedly watching for Jesus almost my whole life. When I heard about the idea of a gap between the rapture and Tribulation, it eased my mind a bit that just maybe we wont have to see everything fufilled before we go! I'm excited to see prophecy unfold, but to be honest, now that we're in the thick of it, I'd rather not see parts of it come together. It might be a weak thing to say, but I'm more scared than I thought I'd be. And maybe those 7 days Noah was in the Ark with the door closed before the rain began-- just maybe it hints at God allowing time in between events. I dont know and am just pondering all the possibilities!

 

[1LoverofGod]

Ive been excitedly watching for Jesus almost my whole life. When I heard about the idea of a gap between the rapture and Tribulation, it eased my mind a bit that just maybe we wont have to see everything fufilled before we go! I'm excited to see prophecy unfold, but to be honest, now that we're in the thick of it, I'd rather not see parts of it come together. It might be a weak thing to say, but I'm more scared than I thought I'd be. And maybe those 7 days Noah was in the Ark with the door closed before the rain began-- just maybe it hints at God allowing time in between events. I dont know and am just pondering all the possibilities!

Honestly, if a gap would happen between the rapture and the tribulation it could be days, weeks, months, it's hard to say, but while God's judgements are going to be horrific from His Wrath, it might just be horrific from the standpoint of just how ungodly humans are going to be with the restrainer taken out of the way.
I'm just glad we will be gone before it gets really bad from either way, the intense wickedness from humans or God's Wrath.

I never thought we would be here to witness what we are even today. But no matter how bad it gets, God will only allow us to go through so much yet be protecting us. I look at 1 Corinthians 10:13 and ponder on the words,

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it"

Some translations use the word Trials in place of Temptation.
Either way, God will only allow us to go through so much but will allow for us to "find a way out so we can endure it "

God is Good. Jesus loves His Bride and won't let us go through anything we can't handle.
Trust in The Lord. Fill your mind with the promises awaiting for you. Try to put more Jesus in your mind and less bad news and He will give you peace.

"You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You"
Isaiah 26:3
Big Hug sis

 

[Tall Timbers]

I often wonder how much effort must be put into trying to calculate an event that isn't in Scripture. It must be stressful putting in so much time and effort to come up with a theory.

I think studying the Word and trying to determine what all it's saying with regard to prophecy is time well spent.

I have a suspicion that after the Rapture the powers that be will do what they can to purge the world of everything related to Christianity, but for individuals who might find a person's notes on the end times, it might help them understand what they're living through and even help lead them to Christ. A lot of what I write is also on my computer(s).

I have a strong interest in everything from Gen 1 through Rev 22.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Honestly, if a gap would happen between the rapture and the tribulation it could be days, weeks, months, it's hard to say, but while God's judgements are going to be horrific from His Wrath, it might just be horrific from the standpoint of just how ungodly humans are going to be with the restrainer taken out of the way.

Yeah, if there's a gap, and no matter how long the gap turns out to be, the world is going to be a very dark place during that time.

 

[Andy C]

Yeah, if there's a gap, and no matter how long the gap turns out to be, the world is going to be a very dark place during that time.

Prayerfully the the first thing our unsaved loved ones do after the rapture is to remember the words we spoke to them about Jesus , the rapture, and what to do, and fall they on their knees, confessing Him as their Savior

 

[1LoverofGod]

I think studying the Word and trying to determine what all it's saying with regard to prophecy is time well spent.

I have a suspicion that after the Rapture the powers that be will do what they can to purge the world of everything related to Christianity, but for individuals who might find a persons notes on the end times, it might help them understand what they're living through and even help lead them to Christ. A lot of what I write is also on my computer(s).

I have a strong interest in everything from Gen 1 through Rev 22.

I have a very strong interest in all of scripture as well. The point I made is that a gap is a theory and isn't found in scripture, and is why I don't stress over time spent on whether there is one or not.
I have yet to see where in scripture it points to a gap but based on surrounding events and what we do see in scripture, there's obviously a Possibility of a gap.
My not being concerned about a gap doesn't discount another's interest in spending time on the theory, I just joked about how much time some spend trying to calculate something that isn't between Genesis and Revelation.
But, like I said, nobody asked my opinion

 

[Andy C]

I have yet to see where in scripture it points to a gap

Can you point out scripture that says the tribulation starts immediately after the rapture?

All we can do is speculate on how long the gap is, be it seconds, days, months, or longer.

 

[1LoverofGod]

Can you point out scripture that says the tribulation starts immediately after the rapture?

All we can do is speculate on how long the gap is, be it seconds, days, months, or longer.

Like I said, it's just not something I personally don't stress over in putting time spent to figure out since it's basically a theory. The Tribulation is not a theory. The Tribulation is mentioned repeatedly in Scripture. A gap isn't.

 

[Andy C]

Like I said, it's just not something I personally don't stress over in putting time spent to figure out since it's basically a theory. The Tribulation is not a theory. The Tribulation is mentioned repeatedly in Scripture. A gap isn't.

My point was you said its not in scripture, but scripture does answer that by not connecting the 2 events.

I also agree, and this is not something I spend a lot of time on, because what happens after the rapture does not effect the Church!

 

[Growing in Grace]

Rev 13:11-15 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast https://biblehub.com/nasb_/revelation/13.htm#fnin his presence. And he makes the earth and those who live on it worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of the sky to the earth in the presence of people. And he deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who live on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause all who do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

It appears that the false prophet follows the antichrist's entrance onto the world stage during the first half of Tribulation. Here's what Fruchtenbaum says in Footsteps of the Messiah on pages 249-250:

In the previous section the rise of the counterfeit father and the counterfeit son was dealt with. To complete the counterfeit trinity, the passages contain a description of the rise of the counterfeit holy spirit in the person of the False Prophet.

Following the rise of the first beast, the antichrist, John saw a second beast come out of the earth (as over against heaven), thus emphasizing his humanity. He will appear like a lamb, giving the appearance of a true religious character, and thus deceive many. But he will speak like a dragon and so will betray his true nature, for he will be an agent of Satan, who throughout the book is portrayed as a dragon. This second beast is elsewhere called the False Prophet (Rev 16:13; Rev 19:20; Rev 20:10).

His activities as the counterfeit holy spirit are now spelled out (Rev 13:12-15). As the Holy Spirit exercises equal authority with the True Son the False Prophet will exercise equal authority with the counterfeit son (Re 13:12a). Just as the Holy Spirit calls all men to worship the resurrected Son, the False Prophet will call all men to worship the resurrected counterfeit son whose death-stroke was healed (Rev 13:12b. In order to fully carry out the deception, the False Prophet will have the power of the counterfeit spiritual gifts of miracles and will perform signs for the purpose of deception (Rev 13:13-14a). After convincing the world of the supremacy of the antichrist, he will command men to make an image of the Beast. After the image is made, it will be given life by the False Prophet. This power of giving life will be another factor why men will worship the antichrist and the image, and those who refuse to do so are put to death (Rev 13:14b-15).

In this manner, the counterfeit trinity will be complete.

Thanks TT, I should know better than to speculate

 

[Tall Timbers]

Thanks TT, I should know better than to speculate

Ack! If we didn't speculate a little it wouldn't be near as fun.

 

[Andy C]

Ack! If we didn't speculate a little it wouldn't be near as fun.

I agree. With all the prophetic events we all engage in discussion over, really, thats all we can do is speculate. Granted, sometimes through a deep study it can be educated speculation, but often times it takes several passages in the bible put together to try and form an opinion.

What I enjoy on this forum is most members enjoy doing the heavy studying, and some only know the basics, but put all together we make a good team.